out of the white house. if only people thought positively everything would be okay. the tariffs and brexit, do they respond to positive thinking? i'm not sure. >> not so sure. that does it for us this morning. thanks so much as always for watching. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. thanks, joe. hi there. i am stephanie ruhle. it is tuesday, august 20th. here's what's happening now. the white house insists the economy is very strong but their actions may tell a very different story. after spending the weekend telling the american people there is no reason to worry, the president's economic team is reportedly exploring options to boost the economy in case things get worse. i have to bring in jeff bennett at the white house. help us understand the message and the mission. because the administration is pushing back on one of the ideas reported that they're looking into a payroll tax. the white house is saying everything is a-okay. what's really happening? >> reporter: the white house is dismissing the idea that the

administration is looking to cut payroll taxes as a way to boost consumer spending even as we all know economic indicators increasingly point to a potential downturn somewhere along the line. "the washington post" and "new york times" as you mentioned reported late yesterday that administration officials are in the early stages of talks about whether a payroll tax cut could be a useful tool to help stop a potential economic slowdown. people might remember former president barack obama temporarily cut payroll taxes to act as a counterweight to the 2009 recession. but here's the thing. this 6.2% payroll tax helps fund medicare and social security. those are two massive programs that democrats have repeatedly warned against messing with. it is hard to see how democrats would even go along with something like this in an election year. the white house official tells us payroll taxes aren't under consideration but that more tax cuts for individuals are being discussed. we should all be very skeptical of that, though, because you might remember president trump

repeatedly promised a middle class tax cut right before the 2018 midterms. take a look at this. >> we passed a massive tax cut, biggest tax cut, for working families and we will soon follow it up with another 10% tax cut for the middle class. >> reporter: that obviously never materialized. it just disappeared into the ether this notion of a 10% tax cut for the middle class. meantime the president is pushing the federal reserve to stimulate the economy and is urging the central bank to cut interest rates by a full percentage point as he steps up his assaults he's been waging against the fed chairman jerome powell. even as the white house, even as the president paints a rosie, economic picture, they are plotting ways behind the scenes to keep the economy from going south on the president's watch in this election year, steph. >> all right. jeff bennett at the white house, thank you so much.

we have a lot to talk about here. shannon pettypiece senior white house reporter for msnbc news. and the new economics editor for "the washington post" who just got there and has already broke this story we're talking about, about these payroll tax discussions. and my friend dan nathan principal at risk reversal advisers and cnbc contributor. shannon, to you first. preparing for a recession does make sense. it's like taking an umbrella out if it might rain. but has the administration boxed itself into a corner if they continue to say there are no signs of a recession and it's the best economy ever? >> if you listen carefully to what they've been saying, they are ig are saying everything is fine and okay now. when you push them on what about next year you see them starting to stumble. behind the scenes there is definitely growing anxiety about what the economy is going to look like in 2020 and the main thing i hear people focused on doing is trying to get a trade deal with china. they obviously see it is a big

overhang in the markets. in the past there's been sort of a wing in the administration that has pushed to be tough on china, tried to push back against, this let's just get a deal for the sake of a deal but even those people i am hearing are starting to realize the importance of getting a deal done with china if they all want a job four years from now in a trump administration. that is number one priority. >> we should note if the white house is saying things are okay now the economic forecast calling for a recession are six to 18 months out. there are not economists saying we are in the throes of it at this moment. you wrote this piece saying white house advisers are talking about this possible payroll tax cut. back in 2011 larry kudlow was the one who said, payroll tax cuts don't work. they don't get people to spend any more money. so what is actually happening? >> that's right. payroll tax cuts are incredibly expensive i think like a hundred billion dollars a year the cost in 2011 and 2012.

larry kudlow was not a supporter of it. there are others in the white house who are kind of emptying the cupboard now to see what things they could do. last week we all heard the white house had their hands over their ears and didn't want to hear anything negative about the economy. there seems to have been a lot of change over the weekend. there's been a lot of meetings and white house officials are trying to figure out what exactly is going on with the economy and what might they need to do if things get worse. as you can tell and have noted they are incredibly concerned about consumer sentiment. they feel consumers are dragging the economy through it right now and if consumers begin to cut back on spending it could be a real problem for the economy going into next year. so they're trying to look at whatever they can do to keep consumers spending money. one way would be to give consumers a tax cut but obviously that is tricky because they have to get it through congress. >> consumers are the ones driving growth when it was the corporate tax cut that the government said was going to spur growth. remember, they said the corporate tax cut would pay for itself.

dan, i want to play something that kellyanne conway said yesterday because it is getting a lot of attention. >> the fact is the fundamentals of our economy are very strong and you know it. >> one of the many reasons it's getting a lot of attention is because that's basically what we heard from john mccain back in 2008. listen. >> our economy, i think, still the fundamentals are, of our economy are strong. >> he thought that and on that very same day lehman brothers went bankrupt. >> yes. >> you and i both know that was the kick-off for the most disastrous financial crisis we have seen since the great depression. she's not entirely wrong, kellyanne conway. there are good fundamentals. unemployment, retail sales. we are growing at a faster pace than other countries. but there are also negative signs. how do you read this? >> the economy is fragile. this is one of the longest recoveries in the post war era in the united states and the longest period we haven't had a

recession. here is the thing about a recession. okay? it doesn't mean we'll be in a financial crisis if we have a recession. the stock market, though, will sniff it out. you just said that by some metrics you could see a recession in 16, 18 months or something like that. i think what is worrying the white house is they view the economy through the lens of the stock market and if the stock market starts to sniff out a recession a year from now, it might start going down and being a lot more volatile as it has over the last month and that is the sort of thing that has gotten their antennas up. you talk about 2008. john mccain might have been president in november of 2008 if the stock market hadn't careened lower and if we hadn't had a recession ongoing, you know, or starting, basically started in 2009. so the point here is that the stock market sniffed it out. the recession didn't come until at least a year later in 2009. >> do you want to weigh in here? peter navarro one of the president's economic advisers said just yesterday with complete certainty the economy will be strong in 2020.

>> right. i mean, here's the thing. obviously economic cycles change. there are recessions. it happens to republican and democratic presidents. the pickle the white house is in now is that the president has so wrapped himself up in the economy he is taking credit for everything that happened with the stock market going up and the good, you know, growth numbers and jobs numbers they've had. it is going to be hard to extract himself from anything negative that happens even if it is not his fault. the tariffs are causing a huge amount of concern. the trade war with china keeps dragging on causing a lot of consternation in the republican party and if this stuff isn't resolved soon it is going to be really hard for the white house to reverse the narrative which is why we're hearing all these attacks on the fed. president trump is trying to set up powell as the bogey man. it is unclear if that will work with voters. we won't know for sometime. >> shannon, isn't it part of the administration's job to emphasize and highlight what is good about the economy? the president is quite good at

that. but the concern is he's not necessarily honest about what's happening. when you look at the tariffs, whether it's the president or peter navarro insisting american businesses and the consumers won't be affected, but we know from axios' reporting that tim koch lobbied the president and the president said we want to make sure apple stays competitive and we want to make sure consumers are buying things come the christmas season. >> i think there is genuine confusion among the president, among people in the white house about what to do, how to get out of this mess they have created. and there were many advisers. gary cohen going back over a year now warning the president about engaging in a trade war because once you start it, it is very difficult to get out. now they are in it. they have a choice. they can try and make a deal with china. china has some leverage because there are these u.s. economic jitters and this potential now that china could just say, well, you know, i don't think we are going to make a deal or they'll try and take a stronger hand and see if they can wait out the

trump administration or get a better deal just to try and get the administration to agree to something. so there is that risk that comes now. or the administration could just try and ride this out, take a strong arm on china, and hope the unemployment number hangs in there. the advisers are telling the president not to focus on the stock market and have told him that for two and a half years, to focus on the positives like the unemployment numbers. we saw the president just last week at a rally saying you love me or hate me, you have to vote for me or your 401(k) is going to go down. well, what happens if your 401(k) goes down? then what is his selling pitch? he is just knocking the legs out from under his argument by tying his presidency to the stock market. it's been this barometer and ekg for him of his entire presidency so it is a difficult thing to let go of now for him. >> dan, how do business readers read the last week out of the white house? >> they don't like it. what was the tax cut of 2017? it was a corporate tax cut meant

to spur capital investment. you get into 2018, we have this gdp going higher than the average over the prior ten-year period. all of a sudden toward the end of 2017 early 2018 when you're ans ifrsarying these tax cuts you get this tariff and all of a sudden we know who is paying the tariff. it is not china. it's u.s. corporations and ultimately us you consumers. >> which might be okay but why isn't the administration telling us that? >> i think to your prior guest, they don't really understand it. here is the knock down effect is the u.s. dollar is as strong as in five years, interest rates higher than most everywhere around the world. that is one reason the president keeps hitting jerome powell but at the end of the day those differentials are one of the issues causing some of the consternation among the administration because something, the chickens will come home to roost at some point. we know a recession is on the rise. we know the stock market is only a few percent from the all-time highs. i think they are trying to thread the needle and it is

going to be hard as they head into the election year. >> joining the conversation to talk about the politics of all of this charlie sykes editor-in-chief of the bulwark and msnbc contributor. we are on the hunt. where are republicans, lawmakers, defending the president's trade and economic policy? thus far we're just hearing a few say this is a left wing conspiracy and people are cheerleading on a recession which no one is. >> i think you just heard the key word which is uncertainty. i remember when republicans and conservatives criticized the obama administration for injecting so much uncertainty into the markets and the economy and that is the key thing. the question is, does this president understand international economics? does this president actually have a plan? when you think about the risk for the president, his brand is what #winning. his brand is fighting. to get out of this trade war does he have to cave in?

he going to appear weak? what happens in hong kong might affect his ability to negotiate this. the chinese are watching, you know, all of this chaos as well. republicans understand i think the one thing standing between them and a potential serious defeat in 2020 is this economy. look, the president's ratings have been historically low despite this incredibly strong economy and the strong stock market. you start losing those elements and seeing the unemployment rate tick up or the stock market anticipating a recession, and, you know, it doesn't take much to go from 43% approval rating down to 38% approval rating. that is a blowout. >> charlie, everybody likes the idea of winning but what happens when you are actually losing? we learned yesterday u.s. steel is about to layoff employees in the state of michigan. and their second quarter earnings were one-third of what they were in the same quarter last year. but just last week president trump said the steel industry is

thriving. michigan was a key swing state in 2016. how does news like this play there? >> this is why republicans and the trump folks have to be very, very nervous about this. two things. number one, you know, this goes to the whole question of are trade wars easy to win? the president imposed the tariffs on steel with all of those consequences. look at the midwest and between the failure to bring back manufacturing jobs and the rather significant hit that the farmers are taking from the tariffs, you have real problems throughout the upper midwest. >> quickly, before we go, charlie, let's say the president puts in place some sort of tax cut. maybe a payroll tax cut. can republicans get onboard? you know that will blow another hole in the already ballooning deficit. >> well, i think at this point they'll get on board in anything he says but it is not going to happen. there is no way it is going to get through congress. it's bad public policy.

i think that one of the real, you know, overlays of all of this is the fact that this was a president and this is a party that wanted to run on the big corporate tax cut and that is certainly looking shakier as time goes on. >> all right. charlie sykes, shannon pettypiece, damian polletta and dan nathan, thank you all. definitely made us smarter. next a brand new poll giving joe biden a major boost today but it is what his wife just said that is painting a very interesting picture of the upcoming race. but first, an nbc news exclusive investigation you do not want to miss. months in the making. why has a right wing media outlet peddling fringe conspiracy theories that's owned and operated by a chinese spiritual community who thinks the world is headed toward judgment day is spending, has spent over a million bucks to become one of president trump's biggest online supporters. up the years. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink

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new this morning exclusive reporting from nbc news linking a chinese spiritual group, footing the bill for some of the biggest pro trump advertising on facebook. the epoch times has spent more than $1.5 million on 11,000 pro trump advertisements in the last six months alone. put that in perspective. that is more than any organization outside the trump campaign itself, even more than most democratic presidential candidates have spent on their own campaigns. joining me now the reporters who

broke this extraordinary story. nbc's benecoli collins. >> here is the deal. here is this group. they run this thing called theepoch times. if you're over 50 on facebook you probably got one of these ads. in fact they sent out physical mailers talking about deep state and how hillary clinton is part of a group taking over the government. they are pretty much everywhere and their end goal, the spiritual group, is to bring about a judgment day that will pit communist and anyone who is sympathetic to him to heaven. they think donald trump is the guy bringing that about. >> what is interesting about this is in the age of trump we've seen grifters pop up everywhere. >> with this kind of money? >> this is the thing. it looks like a regular, conservative outlet.

it keeps getting crazier and crazier the regular conservative ecosystem. when you look behind it, it's nonprofit. so there are several media arms. one is the epoch times which is this, one is ndtde which is their television production company which they make tons of weird interviews and they do youtube shows. then the other include advertisements for a dance troupe. thissas lined with them as well. that is their media arm. they represent epoch times as the new conservative player on the block. but really this is a decades old media arm of an anti-chinese government propaganda outlet. >> what does facebook have to say about this? say we looked at a different industry, say investment banking, and some foreign company that you didn't know calls up and says, yes, i want to do a massive transaction and pay you millions of dollars. the bank has to say we'll do a

deep investigation in know your client before i take your money. facebook? >> it is a really good point. we thought about this, too. all of this dark money, we don't even know how they're getting the money, right? we investigated this for five months. we still don't really know where the money is coming from. >> what does facebook say? >> they don't have an answer. >> if you have money it's because of the ad space. they really react to negative press. if we say, look. this is a violation of your advertising policies then facebook will usually bat it down. facebook has if you look at their ad archive, they have batted down a lot of the epoch times advertisements but generally over all they accept pretty much anybody willing to come to the table with money. >> the shift began in 2016 and we're seeing it kick up again. is it because of the election? >> definitely. this is not going to stop. when there are large political moments they step up. in fact, after the mueller report dropped, that week afterwards, they were a top ten

advertiser on all of facebook. not political advertiser but advertiser. exxon mobile was next to them on this list. >> is there any anything with president trump's campaign team? >> what we're going to find is the trump campaign will align itself with whoever is going to pay and put eyeballs on their message. the president's daughter-in-law had an interview in trump tower reentsly. they were at cpac interviewing everybody from candace owens to sitting congressmen. they are a big player on the block and nobody knows what is behind it. >> the president's facebook page shared them six times. donald trump jr. shared them a couple times too. they are ingrained into that campaign and trying to ingratiate themselves into it. we'll see if that actually happens. >> you spoke to former reporters there. >> really interesting. usually the people who are working there are just volunteers, people who practice the religion, the spiritual

movement, and also work for the paper. that is part of their spirituality. in 2015 they did an interesting thing and decided to hire from outside. they brought in seven new reporters that didn't practice. they put them in a locked room away from the rest of the newspaper staff. they had them churn out articles. one of the former reporters said it was almost like a russian troll farm. that's what's happening behind the scenes here. i am so curious about their tactic for 2020. >> this is some extraordinary reporting. i have a feeling it's just the beginning. brandy, ben, unbelievable. you have to read their new piece. amazing. coming up elizabeth warren out with a brand new plan. this morning this one is in criminal justice reform and it takes direct aim at one of her competitors. plus, jill biden's blunt message to voters who do not support her husband. a new poll shows him regaining a very big lead over his 2020 rivals.

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restoring control and harmony, once thought to belost forever. the most personal technology is technology with the power to change your life. this morning democratic presidential front-runner joe biden is heading back out on the

campaign trail and a brand new cnn poll is revealing he is leading the large field by double digits. 29% of voters say they'll back the former bp in 2020 an increase of seven percentage points from june. senators bernie sanders and elizabeth warren basically stayed the same. but support for senator kamala harris had a big drop, 12 points since june. that's down 5%. nbc news road warrior garret haake on the road joins me now from des moines. it has been a week since biden was out campaigning and he seems to be going all in in iowa. >> reporter: it's not an accident joe biden is returning to the campaign trail here in iowa. it'll be his sixth visit to the hawkeye state. he has been as open as anybody about the fact this state is the lynch pin for his primary plan here. he needs to win in iowa, start off strong. he has been making the argument all along that he is singularly strong enough to defeat donald trump particularly in the midwest. so that's why we're back in iowa. to that end the campaign has

rolled out this morning its first television ad buy of the entire campaign. it is a trump focused ad, which a narrator talks about joe biden essentially restoring the soul of the country, something biden talks about a good deal on the campaign trail and even uses polling data to make that same argument, saying this is the guy who can defeat donald trump and that'll be airing -- go trump fan here in the coffee shop here in des moines -- that'll be airing across the state, six figure ad buy. pretty significant investment in the hawkeye state in mid august. >> all right. joe biden is not the only one making it all about trump. his wife, dr. jill biden is, too. talk to us about her most recent comments because they're getting a lot of attention. >> reporter: yeah. this was interesting. jill biden was campaigning for her husband in new hampshire yesterday and this could be one of those things you might call a gaffe by a traditional definition. a gaffe in politics is sometimes saying the most honest thing out loud. you don't hear politicians do it very much. but it is a biden tradition here and here you have the wife of

the candidate making the argument that you may not have to love joe biden but he is the guy who can beat donald trump. take a listen to what she said yesterday in new hampshire. >> i know that not all of you are committed to my husband. and i respect that. but i want you to think about your candidate, his or her electability, and who's going to win this race. you know, a lot of times i say, oh, you know, polls don't mean anything. polls don't mean anything. but if they're consistent and consistently saying the same thing, i think you can't dismiss that. >> kennedyesque rallying cry? no. but it does line up with what i hear time and time again from voters in every state we go to. the number one priority of democratic primary voters is beating this president and there you hear jill biden say it. she believes her husband is the best position to do that job. steph? >> all right. thank you so much garrett.

joining me now former executive director of the new york state democratic party and democratic strategist bacil and charlie sykes back with me. how did you read what jill biden said? was she giving us if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with? >> exactly right. if you dig into the poll she is saying a lot of that which is that voters generally older are supporting joe biden because they think he is the best person to beat donald trump. this is not an ideological debate which a lot of younger voters want with the other candidates. this is about beating donald trump. she is saying, look. we can have this ideological debate at another time but if we are singularly focused on getting this man out of office my husband is the man to do it. it is a great comment. i'd like to see who was in the room. if those voters skew older she is speaking to a very receptive audience. she is doing exactly what she should be doing, on the road supporting joe biden in a very forceful way.

she is not wrong. >> but, charlie, if it is that receptive, older audience, they're already buying what she is selling. does that message need to get to more ambitious, progressive voters? >> of course it does. think what you're starting to see in these polls is a consistent pragmatism among the democrats. i was struck by that poll because i'm always adding up the numbers between elizabeth warren and bernie sanders to see how it backs up and you'll notice right now he still has a very solid lead and he's even, even if you add both of them. this is what it does come down to. i agree completely. her point is, look. this is going to be a referendum on donald trump. this is not going to be decided on this proposal or this policy. it is going to be decided on are we going to win this or give four more years to donald trump? i thought it was bracingly honest. >> well, he's got the polls but he might not have the dollars. politico reporting that he is

getting out raised by kamala, buttigieg, senator sanders, and elizabeth warren. how do you read that? >> i'd like to -- what i like to think about it, the way i think about it is there are voters that still want to see them on the debate stage. they want to see their presence, what they bring in terms of energy. they actually like the back and forth in some of the shots that they're taking at each other because it shows some energy so they want mayor pete for example to go and talk about values. they want to see kamala sort of give it to some of the other candidates. maybe even joe biden again. i imagine as that debate stage gets smaller and smaller then a lot of those dollars become focused in other ways. they're spread out quite a bit right now but they'll start to get more focused. >> we actually learned last night we want to add talking about the debate stage julian castro has now qualified. i want to talk elizabeth warren. we know she'll be on the stage front and center and is out with a new plan today. this one is criminal justice reform. she is taking direct aim at joe biden and calling for the repeal

of that 1994 crime bill. that's his baby. she wants to end the death penalty, elimination of private prisons, decriminalizing marijuana, ending cash bail and over all improving of prison conditions. is this a place where joe biden is vulnerable or is this a place where biden pushes back and says, these ideas are well and good but let's get real and put forward things that can actually pass? >> a little bit of both. there is obviously a vulnerability among the progressive primary base, the people who turn out. but i also think he has the good comeback. particularly on the issue of guns, which by the way nothing is going to happen as we now know. and he can say, look. i actually was there when we passed a rather significant piece of gun control legislation. we need to be pragmatic in what we're doing. i am guessing there is not going to be a huge amount of daylight between joe biden and the rest by the time we get to the end of this. i would say i think democrats need to be cautious about how this is going to play during a general election campaign as

well. you go too far, and you do hand a talking point to the republicans. >> that is a good point because one of the strengths of joe biden is as a general election candidate does he have the ability to support the rest of the ticket? if you're talking about swing states and swing districts, what is the ability of any other candidate and joe biden to be able to start flipping seats? if you have a policy like the crime bill that he supported, there are voters in those districts that actually might still be supportive of that kind of legislation and it works to his benefit. >> all right, gentlemen, thank you so much. charlie sykes, basil smickle. coming up next you probably heard the name koch talking about the koch brothers. do you know how often you use their products or how much that family is influencing your politics? money, power, politics next. er,. the business of atlanta on monday... ... cincinnati on tuesday. ...philly on wednesday.

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heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea. ♪ausea, (vo) try new pepto liquicaps for fast relief and ultra-coating. (flight attendants) ♪ nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea. ♪ (vo) get powerful relief with new pepto bismol liquicaps. . time now for "money, power, politics." in the 2018 election cycle conservative billionaires charles and david koch spent almost $400 million bucks with $20 million dedicated to making sure the tax cuts passed. there are few individuals with more influence in business and politics than these two brothers on your screen. they own roughly 80% of koch industries. now, we hear about their political donations and their lobbying efforts against climate change initiatives but rarely hear about how this family got so powerful. in the new book "kochland"

kristoffer leonard describes how charles koch turned this company into a $110 billion empire and have infiltrated just about every thread of american life. i'll share this quote. the company is embedded in the hidden infrastructure of every day life. millions of people use koch products without ever seeing koch's name attached. joining me now the author of "kochland the secret story of koch industries and corporate power in america." christopher, you note we use koch products every day and almost never see their name. what are the products? how did this happen? >> well, this company specializes in the kinds of businesses that underpin civilization. koch makes fuel, fertilizer, building materials, clothing materials, the sensors in your cell phones. the kind of stuff you use every day but never directly purchase if you will. and the profits from this have been stunning. koch's annual sales for example are larger than that of

facebook, goldman sachs, and u.s. steel combined. this is a massive company that affects millions of americans. >> then how on earth do we barely know about them? i want to share a quote from the book. when you talk about the secrecy. you write, secrecy was a strategic necessity for koch industries. charles koch did not want to surrender it. he also didn't want to surrender control. he had a specific, clear vision of how to run his company and he didn't need wall street investors to interfere. so was the magic of all this to keep the company private? >> that's right. what is so interesting to me is the secrecy around this corporation. we know koch, for example, very intentionally disguises its political donations. well, that comes from the business itself. and what i realized is that secrecy is strategic for koch industries. first of all, this is a company that is really deeply involved in what we would call trading, buying and selling, energy, supplies, even buying and selling other companies. when that's your line of work

you really don't want other people to know what you know and to know what you're be to do. that's why secrecy is so fundamental to this company. >> charlie, you have seen this play out in wisconsin, wisconsin politics. put it into context. >> well, i mean, obviously they have been major players in the conservative movement and the rise of the republican party but what is interesting to me, also, is the way that -- is the rule they're going to play in the era of trump. they never really got on board with donald trump and the thing about the kochs and i'm talking about politics, in contrast to some of the other players like the mercers, they do think they actually cared about ideas. and i think they have been willing to stay arms length. >> and -- >> they bought into the whole steve bannon, you know, trump sort of world view. and i think that it's interesting to me to note what role the kochs will play or the koch -- the infrastructure will play in the republican party and the conservative movement post

donald trump. these guys are hard to kind of, you know, is just put into a box because they're quite libertarian. they are interested in a whole lot of things. >> kristoffechristopher you go greater detail around how donald trump was certainly not the koch brothers' boy. they considered five different republicans in 2016. none of them were the president. you wrote this. in many ways, donald trump posed a greater political threat to charles koch's political agenda than barack obama. that is a big statement. how? >> well, charles koch has been patiently working to reshape the republican party for 40 years. his goal as charlie just said is to make the republicans more libertarian with this point of view that government must be limited and must never intervene in markets. when donald trump came along in 2016, he up ended that philosophy. donald trump clearly believes that government intervention is

not only appropriate but desirable. just look at the tariffs. look at the trade war. donald trump is seeking to reshape the republican party now in his own image, which is this so-called america first agenda. it is very clear that the america first agenda is anathema to the koch network. there is a struggle and a fight for control for the future of the republican party and i think the koch network realizes if donald trump wins re-election he could reshape the republican agenda for a generation. >> wow. that is extraordinary. this is a must read book. christopher leonard, charlie sykes, thank you so much. coming up corporate america now saying they want to change the rules of capitalism. the ceos of almost 200 companies say it's not just about shareholders anymore. it's about stakeholders. like can we actually believe them? believe them when we know that ceo pay is up 940% over the last 40 years? well, the average worker, only seen a 12% raise.

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this morning some of the most powerful ceos in the world including heads of apple,

amazon, pepsi, and walmart are talking about changing the rules of capitalism. the business round table a group of nearly 200 ceos from major u.s. corporations issuing a statement yesterday saying that the purpose of a corporation is longer to serve shareholders in the company's bottom line the new focus this, investing in employees, dealing ethically with suppliers and supporting the communities in which they work. sounds good. but is it for real. christopher leonard and dan nathan and a dear old friend of mine, chairman of ridhold wealth management. barry, to you first. this all sounds really good. can ceos actually change the rules? jp dimon is a fiduciary ear. >> you have to think long term or short-term goals. and let me give kudos to jamie as chairman of the roundtable. it's not easy to move a battle

ship like that. they're very slow to make changes. this is half a century of adherence to an esoteric belief system. the only thing that matters is profits. when you think about employees, customers, when you think about the community you work in, if you make the folks realize that you're a positive force, that's going to end up working in your favor in the long run. the focus on just next quarter's earnings, that's a very short-term belief system, which unfortunately has dominated corporate america. >> so you're backing this and believing it in a big way? >> well, no. let's be clear, i can't hear what they are saying. they are speaking so loud. look at some of the signatories to this. who is better at tax avoidance than apple and amazon. they signed on. rather than waving a flag, how about you pay your taxes? i could go through just about every one of the signatures and tell you what they have done

wrong the past 30 years. >> christopher, this sounds really good. to barry's point, they have a bad track record. are you buying this? >> okay. rhetorically this is significant. this would be a change in the corporate theory we have been running under since the 1970s. there is an important part missing which is public policy and what the federal government does. the business roundtable was formed in 1972 with a specific goal of lobbying against the regulatory structure of the time, which was called the new deal. the new deal broke up monopolies, empowered labor unions, regulated wall street. and the business roundtable has been lobbying against that for decades. so as much as they might change the rhetoric and the language, that is important. but what you also have to look at is the political context in which these companies are going to be operating. >> okay. so, dan, if these companies don't want regulations put in place that would force this new

ethos into place, if it's just about guidelines, why would we believe these guidelines were a commitment if the market turns? >> here's the thing. this is in some ways a reaction to trumpism. corporate leaders have actually had to answer to their customers and their employees on a lot of really important issues having to do with the environment, and having to do with lbtq rights. the list goes on and on. their feet are being put to the fire. polling shows you that the arc of the political universe in the u.s. is really bending towards more progressive politics. and i think these ceos recognize, a, their lack of diversity, and, b, the control they have over millions and millions of employees. they are going to get in front of it putting a softer edge on corporate america. to me i think it makes sense on the fringes. if it's just window dressing at the very least, it gives the ceos a little bit of cover that they are not just a fiduciary ear any more but they also have

this social responsibility. >> from a sentiment standpoint, the shift is hugely positive. but can it be trusted? think about this. something not mentioned in the letters, ceo pay. executive compensation for the 100 highest paid ceos in the country, they're making 254 times the median income of employees at their company. so dan can talk all day long what employees are demanding and what they care about. you know what they care about? providing for their families. that's not mentioned here. >> they care about pay, health care coverage. look at the signatories on this letter who have been aggressive lobbyists against an increase in the minimum wage. walmart is a perfect example. they have been opposing minimum wage increases for years and years. i don't recall if mcdonald's is on the list. another corporate welfare queen who wants tax subsidies for employees in the guise of aid to dependent children, food stamps and other things. they used to have a mchelp line

to employees who were paid by a private for-profit company could simultaneously be on the corporate dole -- government dole so they don't have to pay actual fair wages. so the actions we have yet to see are really going to tell the tale. >> christopher, maybe is this a great first step? these 200 ceos are opening the door to say we care about all stakeholders and providing real value to our employees. now that they have said that, can't one put their feet to the fire and say, all right, let's go, deliver. >> well, one could. again, we are talking about two realms here. action and rhetoric. as you just pointed out, ceo pay is the highest level it's been in decades. the business roundtable has been diligently lobbying to increase ceo pay for decades. that's what they do. now the question is what comes next. and a lot of options are on the table. for example, in germany, you have members of labor who can sit on the board of directors

for corporations. >> that's what bernie sanders wants. >> yes. that would be a significant change to the operations of corporations that goes beyond rhetoric and language. >> all right. well, it's a start. thanks so much christopher, dan, barry. coming up, planned parenthood giving up millions of dollars in federal funding rather than abide by the new trump administration rule. we'll find out why on the other side. ut why on the other side expense ratio index funds directly to investors. and we have zero account fees for brokerage accounts. at fidelity those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win ♪ saved by zero laso you can enjoy it even ifst you're sensitive. se. yet some say it isn't real milk. i guess those cows must actually be big dogs. sit! i said sit!

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that wraps us up this hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. i'll see you at 1:00. i hand you off to hallie jackson. >> steph, thank you so much. we start with the democratic primaries double-barrel blast from the past. starting with the front-runner, back on the campaign trail in a big way and bringing in a big hitter after spending a week out of the public eye. a week where not so great headlines did most of joe biden's talking for him. he's now unleashing a six-figure media blitz, leaning on his old boss. >> for eight years, president obama and vice president biden were an administration america could be proud of. >> bringing it very much into the present. within just the last hour, senator elizabeth warren releasing her criminal justice reform plan, calling to repeal a lot of the crime